Saturday, July 24, 2010

Minuteman Members Support The List

Alex Segura survived "impeachment," his membership in the Utah Minuteman Project remained.

But, a defiance remained as Thursday's meeting drew to a close. Will he "follow protocol" and not overstep his authority within the club? he was asked.

If something comes up, he more or less said, he will address that situation. Eli Cawley (the chair of the group) has lost his credibility with the state government, Segura said.

He didn't say it, but crying to be said was the fact the Governor called a meeting to discuss undocumented residents -- and no one from the Utah Minuteman Project was there. "We were not invited," I was told by Michael Sanchez, co-chair of the Minuteman Project.

The Minuteman Project was formed to oppose illegal immigration. How many other organizations deal solely with undocumented residents. The topic belongs to them as much as to anyone. So, somehow it seems they should have had a voice at the governor's round table Tuesday.

Cawley was calm and collected for much of Tuesday's meeting, but at one point launched into screaming. Would such an outburst have been welcome at the governor's round table? I've heard (while listening to Enid Greene today on KSL) everyone kept a civil tongue at the round table.

Segura's point was that Cawley has lost his credibility. Would that be for supporting those who put together a list of people who supposedly do not have paperwork to belong in the U.S.?

You know that list. It is now simply referred to "as The List," and two Workforce Service employees were put on administrative leave for having released it. They sent the list to the media and to law enforcement agencies, demanding action against the 1,300 purportedly undocumented residents on the list.

"They gave it to ICE (U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and they did absolutely nothing," Cawley said. He charged that the List was first given to ICE, then, when nothing resulted from that effort, it was released to the media and others.

What of it that the law might have been broken in how the employees went about obtaining the List, and perhaps in how they released private information? Cawley had an answer. "The law was violated in April when the list first came out because no one did anything about it," he said.

Cawley's support of the List echoed the sentiments expressed others at the meeting.
One raised his hand and said that while some have suggested the List did not benefit the cause of forcing undocumented residents to return to their own countries, that is wrong, "because now we know who they are." He felt that now we know who they are, action can and should be taken against them.

To my memory, that names on the List have proved to be either documented or citizens was not mentioned at the meeting.

Segura's stance was that since the reason for going after the undocumented workers is that they are breaking the law, keeping the law should be important to those who oppose them. And, the List did not come about except through breaking the law.

"That's what I've been spewing out: Rule of law! rule of law!" Segura said, saying that if the organization supports such lists, then they are hypocrites.

One man in the audience, though, suggested there are times when a little law breaking is in order. What if the law said turn in all your guns, he asked, and then said of those who composed the list, "The people who broke the law, I believe they did the right thing."

Another man suggested there always have been times when it has been necessary to break the law and then pay the consequences.

Cawley asked for a raise of hands of those who disagreed with his stance. Of about 45 people there (some being members of the press, who wouldn't have raised their hand), only about two or three raised their hands.

Cawley quoted Thomas Jefferson as saying, "When law becomes tyranny, resistance is a duty." He said what was done, was done out of a pure intent and with the intent of protecting the taxpayers.

He then said he has never yet got the media to repeat something he has said, and I didn't follow his point as to what it was, but it may have been that nothing is done when the undocumented workers are known. "This List represents a broader problem," he said.

"That's why I support the people who put out the List," he said.

And the room clapped.

I had went to the meeting wondering if the Minutemen are like others (perhaps even most) in the state: Simply people who believe the undocumented workers are a drain on our government and our economy and are illegal, to boot, and they ought to be dealt with.

I don't know how much of the general public supports breaking the law to create such lists, but I'm guessing most do not. Support for such law breaking, however, seemed to be the consensus of those at the meeting.

I cannot agree. It does seem significant that the single law they are being asked to be accountable to is having paperwork. (Hmmm, it occurs to me I have never heard quoted the law where it says a person cannot be in the U.S. from another country unless he has paperwork, but I suppose it must exist, even though I never hear it referenced.)

Should, per chance, there be a time for breaking the law, going after people who do not have paperwork is not it.

That said, I do believe we should go after many undocumented people who break the law. If they buy or create false IDs, that is a definite crime, and they should be punished.

And, I am appalled by the ease of drugs coming across our border. This is our problem. We do need to secure our border, to stop the drugs, even though it will mean the person simply crossing without paperwork will be caught in the process of looking for these drug dealers.

Unfortunately, we are going about securing the border backwardly, chasing after the ones without paperwork instead of the ones with the drugs. Yes, the two categories overlap, but by focusing on those without paperwork, we are failing to do a lot of policing against drugs that ought to be done.

From all checks I have made, we don't even run a criminal background (inquiring of law enforcement officials in the country they are coming from) when stops are made at the border. Isn't that basic police work?

And, according to the sheriff-elect in Davis County, Todd Richardson, those caught with drugs (unless it is a very large amount) are often simply escorted back to the border, not prosecuted for carrying drugs.

Can we be so busy chasing the man without paperwork, who often is simply an humble soul seeking a frugal-paying job in the U.S., that we sometimes ignore chasing the large and vile drug cartels?

Yes, I wonder. I say, let's get our focus straigtened, then go back to the border and do it right. Chase the criminals, not the humble workers.

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